tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8018311341701044333.post5065697140254363639..comments2024-03-25T20:06:01.587-04:00Comments on Novel Adventurers: Off The Beaten Track: Hammett, Bogart, and MeSupriya Savkoorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10854983392374596718noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8018311341701044333.post-17293651882620369422010-10-17T17:59:53.487-04:002010-10-17T17:59:53.487-04:00Wow Lina - how coincidental is that!? Too funny.
...Wow Lina - how coincidental is that!? Too funny.<br /><br />Heidi - interesting definition. Not sure I agree with it though - but I like where he's going with it. To me, I agree that the noir protagonist can do bad things - but usually for good reasons, at least as far as they're concerned. I wouldn't say the noir character is the CAUSE of all the trouble - they can certainly create some trouble along the way - but I think we need to sympathise with their quest, but not necessarily agree with their methods. <br /><br />I see noir protagonists as a manifestation of the darker sides of ourselves. Just how far would we go to reach our goals?Dave ~https://www.blogger.com/profile/14655081796141191462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8018311341701044333.post-19021551312797768632010-10-16T00:05:51.804-04:002010-10-16T00:05:51.804-04:00Dave, the definition of noir that I heard at Bouch...Dave, the definition of noir that I heard at Bouchercon came from noir author Eddie Muller, who is this year's toastmaster, and is known around here for his Noir Film Festival, held every year in SF's Castro Theater. He said: Noir is when the protagonist deliberately does bad things to fulfill a particular need and/or he fails to achieve his goal in the end. According to Muller, what sets noir apart from hardboiled detective stories is this: the detective is the good guy, always trying to set things right. But the noir character is the cause of all the trouble in the first place. <br /><br />I'm not offering this as the definitive definition because I really have no idea. It's not the genre I write, and it's the one that has always eluded me the most. But I'm curious: what do you think of Eddie's explanation? Is it too narrow?Heidi Noroozyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03351899620446316075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8018311341701044333.post-80324329543630767372010-10-15T22:48:25.521-04:002010-10-15T22:48:25.521-04:00OMG, Dave - not only I've been to John's G...OMG, Dave - not only I've been to John's Grill, but I've been there THE DAY THE FALCON got stolen - that is, when it was already missing! I kept looking for it, because it was supposed to be there - at least according to my guide book, but it wasn't. The next day we read in the paper that it was stolen! But, I never found out who, when, why...Lina Zeldovichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04258464515913616152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8018311341701044333.post-57677097749307782622010-10-15T22:14:51.914-04:002010-10-15T22:14:51.914-04:00A fun post, Dave, thanks! I can't wait to visi...A fun post, Dave, thanks! I can't wait to visit John's Grill next time I'm in SF next. And you've got me curious too -- what's this real-life mystery regarding the stolen statue? You're keeping us in suspense!Supriya Savkoorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10854983392374596718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8018311341701044333.post-42441625149275021382010-10-15T22:10:52.065-04:002010-10-15T22:10:52.065-04:00I love that definition of noir, Dave, you make it ...I love that definition of noir, Dave, you make it sound so... seedy. Great post!Alli Sinclairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00363202163419352155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8018311341701044333.post-29028942619771232692010-10-15T21:18:26.832-04:002010-10-15T21:18:26.832-04:00I'm glad you liked Kathy. I always find the e...I'm glad you liked Kathy. I always find the easier something is to write - the more I love the subject.<br /><br />Heidi, ahhh, the ever elusive definition of noir. Maybe that's another reason I like it - it's not easily defined.<br /><br />Noir's are darker and have more sinister pathological or sociological elements and/or sometimes even political applications to them. They aren't about the surface people want you to see, they're about what lurks in the dark corners of a city - or the human heart.Dave ~https://www.blogger.com/profile/14655081796141191462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8018311341701044333.post-50515593018151013962010-10-15T08:59:30.702-04:002010-10-15T08:59:30.702-04:00Dave, what a lovely tribute to one of my favorite ...Dave, what a lovely tribute to one of my favorite local haunts! Thanks for that. But you left a real teaser in there: how can you bring up the mystery of the real-life stolen Maltese falcon without telling us what it is? <br /><br />Also, can you give us your definition of noir? I heard a great one an Bouchercon yesterday (big mystery conference - in San Francisco this year). I'll share, but you go first!Heidi Noroozyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03351899620446316075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8018311341701044333.post-44884904279857637862010-10-15T07:49:45.655-04:002010-10-15T07:49:45.655-04:00Absolutely FABULOUS! I love Film Noir but haven...Absolutely FABULOUS! I love Film Noir but haven't read any detective noir. I really should. I prefer my noir set in LA and San Francisco - I've lived in both cities - and was once one of those people walking the streets of San Francisco, depicted in that photo. The history came alive for me back then and in this post. Thank you for such a treat!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com